Top MN MIAC Recruits

[Mac of the MIAC]

Awesome. This site is officially dead if the best thing we can discuss is the taxes Dave may or may not have paid for Bob to attend Olaf 30 years ago.

[wonderboy33]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Hauck's Trials experience and National Records occur post high-school? Why are we considering this information when evaluating the best recruit? Also, Mac, I realize that it's easier for us to only evaluate high school results because of your list but if we're talking about the best recruits, club times should be taken into account. It doesn't matter whether you achieved your times in HS or Club, fast is fast. Yes Chapel, my name should be thrown into the mix. My times would be at the top or near the top of most of the events on the list.

[wonderboy33]

... Pat Haws coached both sports at the time, now just coaches soccer.

He did...

http://www.gojohnnies.com/news/2010/3/3 ... ?path=msoc

I love this quote at the end of the article...

“In high school I played football on the bench, wrestled on my back and pole vaulted on the ground,” Haws said. “I was just simply not a gifted athlete; my forte was my tuba.”

Classic Haws. Not quite "Do you hate your mother?" but not bad.

[caveman12]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Hauck's Trials experience and National Records occur post high-school? Why are we considering this information when evaluating the best recruit? Also, Mac, I realize that it's easier for us to only evaluate high school results because of your list but if we're talking about the best recruits, club times should be taken into account. It doesn't matter whether you achieved your times in HS or Club, fast is fast. Yes Chapel, my name should be thrown into the mix. My times would be at the top or near the top of most of the events on the list.

Get over yourself, MAC's original post states that it's top recruits based off of the HS state meet. No where does it say it's the all time list; in fact, the only time "all-time" has been thrown around has been for Hauck. I am failing to see where anyone is arguing this is the all-time list.

[wonderboy33]

Get over yourself, MAC's original post states that it's top recruits based off of the HS state meet. No where does it say it's the all time list; in fact, the only time "all-time" has been thrown around has been for Hauck. I am failing to see where anyone is arguing this is the all-time list.

Can you read? Doesn't this sentence address your point?

Also, Mac, I realize that it's easier for us to only evaluate high school results because of your list

and then I go on to say...

if we're talking about the best recruits, club times should be taken into account. It doesn't matter whether you achieved your times in HS or Club, fast is fast.

I don't see the point of evaluating the all-time best recruit or recruits (you are incorrect, there were a number of names thrown out there, please read past posts) based on this list when we know it's not comprehensive. That's what I'm arguing. Please point out where I've been unclear and I will try to explain it to you.

[Chapel Partner]

Yes, Hauck's college stuff happened after high school... But his college achievements just highlight how awesome he was.

Either way, I stand by a state record holder who could go anywhere going to St Olaf as being the best MIAC recruit ever... And in the discussion nationally.

Wonderboy, what were your times? Post them.

I was probably the 250th best recruit in UST history, and top 50 for transfers to GAC... Somewhere behind Mac of the MIAC... But ahead of Aaron Bitter... Ok, behind Bitter too.

[wonderboy33]

Yes, Hauck's college stuff happened after high school... But his college achievements just highlight how awesome he was.

Either way, I stand by a state record holder who could go anywhere going to St Olaf as being the best MIAC recruit ever... And in the discussion nationally.

Wonderboy, what were your times? Post them.

I was probably the 250th best recruit in UST history, and top 50 for transfers to GAC... Somewhere behind Mac of the MIAC... But ahead of Aaron Bitter... Ok, behind Bitter too.

You're talking about a guy that was good at 2 high school events (based on this list). A State Record back in his days was essentially crap (though the 200 IM time is very good). There are probably a number of guys that were close to State Records in a number of events, and I consider the best recruit to be extremely versatile. I'm not going to post my times again but if you're near the top in many events, you should be in the mix. Some of the names thrown out there have no business being mentioned.

I'm not exactly disagreeing that Hauck may be the best but this list certainly isn't comprehensive and the evidence isn't good for him here. He likely had other club times that were impressive as well. Considering that this has no 200 stroke times, or really any distance events, it's not a good evaluation. On another note, I see that Del Cerney was like 21.3 in high school. This guy went 19.72 at the U of M and had the pool record there for years. That's staggering.

[caveman12]

The purpose of this particular thread, Wonderboy, was to see some of the top MIAC recruits based off their high school state meet; in particular, the MN state meet. Everybody knows that not everyone swam high school and not every recruit was from MN. This is what can be considered a subcategory to the all-time listings. If the argument was that the all-time rankings were based off this list alone, then yes, I agree with you 100%. You’re argument is correct, but it was just off topic. That’s what my argument was, you are off topic. This is not the first time you have twisted the words of others’ in order to mention how you USED to be fast. Hence my "get over yourself" comment. You are one of the few people on this entire website that brag about their teenage life.

I reread this thread, like you asked, and I stand by my statement. Hauck is the only person from this list that has been considered the all-time best. I suggest you read this thread again, buddy.

[wonderboy33]

The purpose of this particular thread, Wonderboy, was to see some of the top MIAC recruits based off their high school state meet; in particular, the MN state meet. Everybody knows that not everyone swam high school and not every recruit was from MN. This is what can be considered a subcategory to the all-time listings.

Incorrect. The title of the thread was "Top MN MIAC Recruits", not "Top MN MIAC High School Recruits". Based on the title, club swimmers should be considered. Based on common sense, the fastest swimmers do not always swim high school. That's fine if you want to discuss an incomplete list, I'm just saying that it really means nothing.

If the argument was that the all-time rankings were based off this list alone, then yes, I agree with you 100%. You’re argument is correct, but it was just off topic. That’s what my argument was, you are off topic. This is not the first time you have twisted the words of others’ in order to mention how you USED to be fast. Hence my "get over yourself" comment. You are one of the few people on this entire website that brag about their teenage life.

Please cite where I've twisted your words (or others) and I will apologize. Is it bragging to say that your times shouldn't be disregarded because you didn't swim high school? If so, then I guess I'm bragging. If not, then I'm throwing out a valid point. It's ironic that you bad mouth reliving your athletic days on a site that is essentially filled with old alumni staying in touch with the sport that has passed them by.

I reread this thread, like you asked, and I stand by my statement. Hauck is the only person from this list that has been considered the all-time best. I suggest you read this thread again, buddy.

As for best recruit in the MIAC, it's probably a toss up between Hagameyer and Stewart.

Mac was basing this off of the high school list, and that's my point. There are people that were faster than both, and faster in more events coming out of high school. In addition, Chapel threw in Hauck's Trials experience and National Records, both of which were from college, not high school.

[Mac of the MIAC]

My experience is that a vast majority of fast MN swimmers swim HS. Even further, they get their best times at a MSHSL meet, either sections or state. It's the biggest game in town and anyone who falls outside of that, myself included, is an exception. How many recruits have you looked up that haven't gotten their best times at a state meet?

If this list proves anything, its' that caveman12 is one of the fastest MIAC recruits of all time. Easily in the top 15.

[wonderboy33]

My experience is that a vast majority of fast MN swimmers swim HS. Even further, they get their best times at a MSHSL meet, either sections or state. It's the biggest game in town and anyone who falls outside of that, myself included, is an exception. How many recruits have you looked up that haven't gotten their best times at a state meet?

If this list proves anything, its' that caveman12 is one of the fastest MIAC recruits of all time. Easily in the top 15.

Up until a few years ago, a MSHSL rule stated that you couldn't swim club and high school at the same time. There were many kids that swam club instead, based on numerous factors, not the least of which being the quality of their high school coach and program. Now, you can swim both high school and club, and even swim non-high school events at club meets while swimming club.

I only need to look at the results of my club to know that there are kids that swim faster at their USS Meets. They have the opportunity to swim against faster competition at National Meets, and swim more of the events that are competed on the college level. There are 6 events that are contested in college that aren't contested in high school. Based on that, there are kids that only get the opportunity to swim their best events at club meets (i.e. 200 back, 1650, etc.). Wasn't Hauck a 200 backstroker?

In order to find the most well-rounded swimmers, I would think a college coach would consider club results, as these are the kids that can generally swim more events. I look at a club like the Rochester Orcas, who have a Senior Coach that I respect a great deal. His kids swim extremely fast, and a number of them have chosen to swim club instead of high school. I believe the Foxjet Coach encourages her kids to swim club only, if they have goals that extend further than high school competition. Again, this has changed a bit the last few years with the rule change.

For boys, high school can sometimes be the only opportunity for them to taper for a short course meet. Some of them come back to their club teams to swim after high school, but then you're hedging your bets on a second taper, or an extended taper. Then you're depending on what kind of training they've done during the high school season in order to ensure fast swims beyond that season. If they get their best times during high school, as many of them do, it's because they can't taper for short course club competition. They can only taper for long course during the summer, and it depends on how dedicated they are during that time.

High school coaches have it easy in a way. They get to take what the club coach has started in the fall, and build on that through their season. Most of them taper down to nearly nothing, as their really are no distance events, and the high school state meet is 2 days, as opposed to a wider range of events and 4 days of swimming at a USS state meet. This makes it difficult to ensure fast swimming when the boys come back for a second taper with club. In addition, high school coaches are able to require daily attendance without risk of losing kids and revenue.

The challenge for club coaches moving forward is to make club swimming more desirable to more people. Who wants to swim at a 6+ hour session when you can be at the pool for 2 hours or less, swim a few events, and be home with plenty of time for other activities? What we've done at my club, is try to incorporate more of the "high school type" meets, with smaller sessions, and more creative event offerings. Trying to add the team aspect on more occasions than just the state meets will be key as well. That's the future of club swimming in my opinion.

[wonderboy33]

If this list proves anything, its' that caveman12 is one of the fastest MIAC recruits of all time. Easily in the top 15.

Sounds like a long list.

[Mac of the MIAC]

Wonderboy, please post your HS era times, including dates and meets. I totally believe you, but I'm going to need screenshots if you're going to crack my top 5 list.

[Mac of the MIAC]

Up until a few years ago, a MSHSL rule stated that you couldn't swim club and high school at the same time. There were many kids that swam club instead, based on numerous factors, not the least of which being the quality of their high school coach and program. Now, you can swim both high school and club, and even swim non-high school events at club meets while swimming club.

I only need to look at the results of my club to know that there are kids that swim faster at their USS Meets. They have the opportunity to swim against faster competition at National Meets, and swim more of the events that are competed on the college level. There are 6 events that are contested in college that aren't contested in high school. Based on that, there are kids that only get the opportunity to swim their best events at club meets (i.e. 200 back, 1650, etc.). Wasn't Hauck a 200 backstroker?

In order to find the most well-rounded swimmers, I would think a college coach would consider club results, as these are the kids that can generally swim more events. I look at a club like the Rochester Orcas, who have a Senior Coach that I respect a great deal. His kids swim extremely fast, and a number of them have chosen to swim club instead of high school. I believe the Foxjet Coach encourages her kids to swim club only, if they have goals that extend further than high school competition. Again, this has changed a bit the last few years with the rule change.

For boys, high school can sometimes be the only opportunity for them to taper for a short course meet. Some of them come back to their club teams to swim after high school, but then you're hedging your bets on a second taper, or an extended taper. Then you're depending on what kind of training they've done during the high school season in order to ensure fast swims beyond that season. If they get their best times during high school, as many of them do, it's because they can't taper for short course club competition. They can only taper for long course during the summer, and it depends on how dedicated they are during that time.

High school coaches have it easy in a way. They get to take what the club coach has started in the fall, and build on that through their season. Most of them taper down to nearly nothing, as their really are no distance events, and the high school state meet is 2 days, as opposed to a wider range of events and 4 days of swimming at a USS state meet. This makes it difficult to ensure fast swimming when the boys come back for a second taper with club. In addition, high school coaches are able to require daily attendance without risk of losing kids and revenue.

The challenge for club coaches moving forward is to make club swimming more desirable to more people. Who wants to swim at a 6+ hour session when you can be at the pool for 2 hours or less, swim a few events, and be home with plenty of time for other activities? What we've done at my club, is try to incorporate more of the "high school type" meets, with smaller sessions, and more creative event offerings. Trying to add the team aspect on more occasions than just the state meets will be key as well. That's the future of club swimming in my opinion.

You are telling us what you want winter USS to be, not what it is. I can only remember one kid in my age bracket that chose USS over MSHSL, Sean Foreigner or Forrester, or something. His Dad was an official and I think he was homeschooled and he ended up flattening out time-wise as he got older. Name a few top tier swimmers who have eschewed HS swimming for club meets, and I'll agree with you, but anecdotally, I just don't see any data to backup your point. Every swimmer I've researched over the last 4 years has achieved their best times at HS meets.

[Chapel Partner]

I think one kid that I remembered in high school didn't swim for his high school, and swam for USS instead. I think he was from Chaska. Totally dumb in my mind.

Sports are about impressing people. Standing up at an assembly in front of the entire school and getting a rousing aplause for boner heating the 200 Med relay was pretty awesome in HS. I thought guys who swam USS who nobody at school heard about were missing out. Even though swimmers were nerds in my high school, people were still impressed when you showed off your state patch on your letter jacket.