Jim Steen's Legacy

[Captain Insano]

He's original because he kept his job?

He is original because he is extremely successful and could easily have graduated to another level of coaching but chose not to for whatever reason. I guess that doesn't necessarily make him an altruist but I think it shows amount of character.

[wonderboy33]

I think it shows that he likes his job, nothing more. Neither you nor I know what kind of opportunities he had at the D1 Level. It doesn't take character to enjoy your job, but it does take effort at times.

[Derek]

I wouldn't argue that he is original for keeping his job, but that he is old fashioned. We are now accustomed to people switching jobs and careers much more than they did just 30 years ago.

It seems that there are a lot of people trying to stoke the fire here, or just a lot of ignorance. Steen has been incredibly successful at the d3 level. We should want to believe that he is the best coach in the entire universe because then it makes it more acceptable that he has won so many times. If he isn't that phenomenal, then what are the rest of us doing? Why hasn't another team beat Kenyon (Men) yet? Unless you are going to accuse Steen of acting unethically, it is only logical that either he IS that good or that everybody else is that bad. So which would you prefer?

[Father]

Don, you can see my IP address?

AMAZING, Mr. Moderator!!!

I'm so proud of you!

[DonCheadle]

Don, you can see my IP address?

AMAZING, Mr. Moderator!!!

I'm so proud of you!

Whatever Jim

[Chapel Partner]

I've said this before, but I think for a sport like swimming, recruiting is 90% of the coaching.

Sure a good coach can make solid workouts, and motivate guys to swim their hardest. But when it comes down to it, if the swimmers are fast in high school, they'll get faster in college just by getting stronger (unless the freshman 15 gets in the way or they fall in with the goth crowd and quit swimming to join theater).

I can probably Google a solid workout, or buy a book with one. But being able to convince a kid with D1 talent to pay $30K a year to swim on my team is quite a different feat in itself.

So I will say, Steen must be one of the best recruiters in D3 swimming (probably the best). But as far as being a great all around coach, doesn't matter in my mind. Mac of the MIAC could coach this years Kenyon team to a title... and maybe even coach the Olympics while he's at it.

[Mac of the MIAC]

I've said this before, but I think for a sport like swimming, recruiting is 90% of the coaching.

Totally agree. And to be fair, Jim Steen is the best D3 swimming coach ever. That point cannot be argued. And since winning at swimming is 90% recruiting, Jim Steen is a great recruiter.

Convincing a kid who swam a 20.9 in the 50 free to pay 40k a year to go to college, when he could probably go to The Ohio State University on a swimming scholarship for free is a tough sell. It's a sell that every d3 coach probably tries to make with 3-5 kids a year. But let's also be realistic. Most kids into swimming are coming from a middle to upper class background. Money is not as big of a factor when choosing a college. And that's why d3 swimming is pretty exciting. A lot of borderline d1 swimmers choose to swim d3. And very few choose d2.

What Jim Steen should not do is compare himself to a super bowl winning football coach. Until you can spit off 5 offensive formations that can take advantage of a 6-1 on 3rd and 2, don't compare yourself to a football coach at any level.

[Mickey Mouse]

Jim has been much more of a recruiter.

The support for that can be found in the results. He has consistently gotten vast improvements from his swimmers. Plus, and maybe more telling, is that his teams NEVER miss a taper (I'm talking about the men, don't know about women). Isn't that amazing to anybody else?

If somebody can just Google workouts and have it be good enough, why don't other coaches see the consistent results he does? To me, that speaks volumes to his coaching ability.

I'm not drawing comparisons to D1 or what not but only a great coach can get the results he does year in and year out.

[Chris Knight]

Recruiting is 90% of coaching? No. It's important but it's not that high. Recruiting didn't get Josh Mitchell to go from 21.5 and 46.7 as a sophomore to 20.2 and 44.9 as a junior.

[Mac of the MIAC]

Recruiting is 90% of coaching? No. It's important but it's not that high. Recruiting didn't get Josh Mitchell to go from 21.5 and 46.7 as a sophomore to 20.2 and 44.9 as a junior.

Isn't some of that on Josh Mitchell?

But let's get into it. What are the Kenyon training secrets? Do they go year-round? Do they swim harder and longer? Is there a big weight program? What do they do differently? Can someone from Kenyon comment?

[Chapel Partner]

Any "good" coach sees improvement.

If a swimmer does not get better in college, it is most likely due to the fact that they discovered Busch Light is on sale.

Taking recruiting out of the equation, what is a better coaching feat:

Getting a guy who went a 58 100 breast in high school down to a 56 by his senior year?

or

Getting a guy who was a 1:05 in high school down to a 59?

Some may disagree, but I’d go with the 1:05 down to a 59.

Hard to say, but who knows if Steen could do that at Kenyon because I doubt a 1:05 breast stroker has ever made the team. He takes VERY fast high school swimmers, and gives them a lane to train in to get faster. Yes he motivates them, and gives them workouts, and tells stories about Gary Hall sucking at practice, but when it comes down to it, the swimmer is either good or bad by the time they are an 18-19 year old freshman. And they will get better just by getting stronger and laying off the Busch Light tall-boys.

I guess I agree that recruiting isn't 90% of coaching success at the D3 level, it is more like 99%.

[wonderboy33]

To add to Chapel and Mac's point, if recruiting is at the very least a big part of coaching, then Steen did his best coaching during the late 70's and early 80's. The Kenyon name is what sells the program these days, not Jim Steen.

To say that his success is about finding kids who are trending upward is ludicrous. What kid isn't trending upward throughout their high school career? If you aren't faster during your senior year than you were your freshman year than you most likely are drinking premiums and burning heaters rather than training.

There are no secrets to the Kenyon training program. They do the same style of training that other D3 schools do. The difference is that they have a much bigger pool of talent training together. It's much easier to get a 20.9 kid to train and swim faster when he has other kids who are as fast or faster around him. Most likely, that kid is swimming with that kind of talent for the first time ever. Not many high school teams have a more than one 20.9 kid, if any.

[E-man's Revenge]

I wouldn't argue that he is original for keeping his job, but that he is old fashioned. We are now accustomed to people switching jobs and careers much more than they did just 30 years ago.

I have a different view of Steen staying at Kenyon for 30 years. In his bio for the TPSC it states, "Never content to repeat past success..." Never content? Isn't winning the men's title 28 times the very definition of being content with past successes? If he were truly interested in the challege of moving up to the next level, he would've done so by now. We've all seen coaches move to the next level and fail, see Nick Saban, Rick Pitino, Pete Carroll, etc. I believe that Steen made a decision to not stick his neck out at the next level, and remain in a position where it would be difficult to fail. I don't think it's because he is old fashioned.

[silentp]

What Jim Steen should not do is compare himself to a super bowl winning football coach. Until you can spit off 5 offensive formations that can take advantage of a 6-1 on 3rd and 2, don't compare yourself to a football coach at any level.

D3football.com: The Best Source for Division III Football Information

[Father]

Recruiting is 90% of coaching? No. It's important but it's not that high. Recruiting didn't get Josh Mitchell to go from 21.5 and 46.7 as a sophomore to 20.2 and 44.9 as a junior.

Isn't some of that on Josh Mitchell?

But let's get into it. What are the Kenyon training secrets? Do they go year-round? Do they swim harder and longer? Is there a big weight program? What do they do differently? Can someone from Kenyon comment?

You're just gonna have to wonder. No one will ever know the secrets...

Maybe he is just really good at finding workouts on google....

what a joke!